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[Music]

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hello and welcome to episode number 42

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of the point of convergence podcast

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as always i am your host exo academian

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over 40 plus episodes of the point of

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convergence podcast we've covered a

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broad assortment of matters pertaining

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both to the ufo phenomenon and related

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topics such as parapsychology near-death

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experiences out-of-body experiences

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contact with non-human intelligence via

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endogenic means and much more

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we've also frequently framed these

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matters within a model that proposes

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that consciousness may be the underlying

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bedrock of reality from which all of the

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rest of the manifest cosmos arises

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we've plotted various points of

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convergence as we've explored the

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remarkable ways the so-called contact

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modalities point to something

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fundamental about reality itself

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a reality much more complex and

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interesting than the flatland version

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currently being offered up by

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reductionistic scientific materialism

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and during the course of our journey

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these various matters have sparked our

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collective curiosity

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birthing additional questions

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and of course we should not be surprised

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by this this field of inquiry is the

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deepest of rabbit holes inspiring

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several new and thought-provoking

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questions for every point of

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semi-transparent clarity that is

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tentatively offered up

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and in light of that it occurred to me

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that now would be an apt time to turn

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the subject matter over to you the

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audience

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inspired by that notion this week's

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episode will be the first of a new

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recurring feature i'm calling the

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inquiring mind which will incorporate a

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question and answer format

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you ask the questions and i'll do my

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best to respond in as thoughtful and

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complete a manner as i can

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in terms of the questions put forward by

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you this first edition of the inquiring

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mind certainly did not disappoint

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the questions submitted were thoughtful

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and intriguing and for that i thank you

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for your submissions

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today's topics include disclosure mass

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trance the origins of religion

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prime contact d's zero point energy the

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nature of reality and more

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and now without further ado let's dive

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into the inaugural addition of the

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inquiring mind in this the 42nd episode

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[Music]

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all right we've got numerous questions

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to get to so let's jump right in the

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first question submitted by an audience

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member has to do with religion

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the question is

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what are the likely responses of each of

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the major world religions to disclosure

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of the presence of an ongoing non-human

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intelligence here on earth

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great question i've touched on this in

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passing most specifically in terms of

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christianity

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but much of what i will say here also

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applies to other religions certainly to

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islam and judaism for instance

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well what i would say is more so than

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religions the question is really about

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the developmental levels within those

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religions in other words there is not

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one uniform christianity any more than

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there is one uniform

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islam or judaism

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there are many different

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versions of christianity practice for

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instance across the world even within

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the united states for instance one

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country one nation there are multiple

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versions of christianity and really the

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way people practice religion and think

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about reality is an extension of their

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worldview and that is true of how they

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practice religion for instance

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so take two different kinds of

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christianity southern baptist being a

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very conservative form that has a very

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literal view of scripture what it says

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is what you should practice there's no

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sense of context or history or how that

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might be different for different people

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in different eras

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and you take something like a much more

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modern

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presbyterian form

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mainline kind of christianity

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which is much more really about

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humanitarian causes there isn't a lot of

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religiosity at the root in other words

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in those particular forms of

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christianity you don't really even have

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to worship jesus you don't even

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necessarily have to think of jesus as a

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historical figure who actually existed

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whereas in southern baptist traditions

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of course

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absolutely the historical figure of

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jesus is central and not only that but

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this view that

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jesus is the only way to be saved and

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therefore to go to heaven in the

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afterlife

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anyone who doesn't fall under that

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salvation is doomed to go to hell that

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is the basic

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premise of more conservative versions of

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christianity including

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southern baptists again very different

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from the more humanitarian or mainline

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christianity

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so obviously all that is to say a group

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that is more on the progressive end

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seeing that all human beings are

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connected and even for those members of

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more mainline circles that do believe in

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an afterlife and those notions

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there is this sense that there may be

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multiple ways to achieve that kind of

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union with god now for those people

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there already has been a process of an

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ever expanding circle of inclusion to

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include other human beings other

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cultures other religions

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so the notion of non-human intelligences

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will likely while again it will still be

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a shock to the system for many people

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those more progressive

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ends of christianity will be able to

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incorporate that new reality into their

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religion because again it's about ever

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expanding circles of inclusion

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of course for the more conservative end

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where dogmatic views around

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human beings being the only intelligent

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species and all being fallen and all

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needing

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the salvation of jesus to have union

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with god

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this will throw a major wrench into the

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works

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and this will be much more difficult for

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them to incorporate into their existing

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dogma

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my point of view is generally there is

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not a lot of wiggle room here as i've

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said before because the views are very

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dogmatic in the most conservative

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strains of christianity again i'm

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talking about those ones specifically

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and i think those specific kinds of

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groups will either

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change their view in other words abandon

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that particular worldview that

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particular view of christianity and

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adopt a more modern one or more

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progressive one

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or they will conclude that these aliens

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must be demonic as i've said before they

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have a sort of three-tiered view of

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reality

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god and angels in heaven satan and

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demons below and human beings really

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being the only intelligent species in

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between

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again that's not an absolute but that's

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generally the view for the most

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conservative versions of christianity

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and for those people they're very likely

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to either abandon that view after these

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new revelations come into focus or they

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will view these others as demonic in

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nature

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demonic more than angelic because again

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they are unfamiliar they are new

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and often anything new is treated as

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underlyingly deceptive

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because of passages in scripture that

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have to do with satan parading as an

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angel of light and that kind of thing

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so ufos and aliens will play right into

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this kind of thinking in fact even if

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these aliens show up and do good things

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and apparently help human beings

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there will still be some who claim this

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is all a ruse and that this is all part

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of the antichrist plan that this is

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about human beings uniting under a one

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world government aided by these aliens

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who are really demons in disguise

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all in preparation for the arising of

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the antichrist that theology is much

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more concretized than many people

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realize and even when there is evidence

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to the contrary it will be interpreted

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in this way by many many people in those

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most conservative religious circles

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all right on to question number two

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in your opinion will there ever be a

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mainstream acceptance of non-human

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intelligence slash paranormal

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experiences and if so what will be the

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road that leads there

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is this realm esoteric by definition and

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not penetrable to study will there

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eventually form a consensus about its

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nature

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again another excellent question

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i would say progress towards acceptance

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of the reality of this aspect of

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existence is slow

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and sometimes unsteady

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william james the famous historian and

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philosopher of religion

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said that progress is so slow and

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sometimes seemingly torturously so for

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those of us interested in this topic

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that we really have to gauge it not by

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the year not by the decade but by the

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century he was referring more

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specifically to so-called psychical

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research

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but much of this overlaps because we're

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talking about aspects of reality that

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extend beyond the parameters of

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physicalism and again the assumptions of

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reductionistic scientific materialism

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i think dean raiden is on the right

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track when he points out that these

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revelations

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don't mean that we have to throw away

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our textbooks but rather simply we

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revise them

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according to raiden's model that i

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discussed in a previous podcast and i

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concur with these notions by the way

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consciousness which currently sits at

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the top of the scientific pyramid

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meaning it's dependent on everything

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below in other words it's only the

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chemical firings of a

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warm wet brain that bring about

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consciousness from the perspective of

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scientific materialism it needs to go

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from there and be moved to the very root

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of the pyramid in other words

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consciousness becomes foundational to

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everything else every other building

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block of the pyramid is added on top of

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consciousness

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derivative but foundational

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indeed foundational to everything else

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that arises in what we call reality

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in terms of what it takes there is a

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saying that applies equally well in

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science and religion

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progress moves funeral by funeral

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in other words if you don't like the

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current state of affairs funerals tend

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to do the trick

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in other words over time perspectives

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change

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in other words views are often so rigid

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that only a changing of the guard will

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allow for truly new thinking to enter

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the fray

287
00:11:10,949 --> 00:11:08,720
indeed even dean raiden has talked about

288
00:11:13,269 --> 00:11:10,959
more of his papers being accepted into

289
00:11:16,470 --> 00:11:13,279
mainstream science journals now

290
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:16,480
than when he began several decades ago

291
00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:18,640
primarily because a new generation of

292
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:20,640
editors are at the helm

293
00:11:25,829 --> 00:11:23,279
editors younger and less resistant to

294
00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:25,839
the notion that consciousness may indeed

295
00:11:30,949 --> 00:11:28,640
be more primary than the physical world

296
00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:30,959
they are at least less dogmatically

297
00:11:36,949 --> 00:11:33,360
opposed to that notion as i've said

298
00:11:38,870 --> 00:11:36,959
before even the revelations of quantum

299
00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:38,880
dynamics are only

300
00:11:43,750 --> 00:11:41,600
barely being really reckoned with by the

301
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:43,760
scientific establishment it's kind of

302
00:11:48,710 --> 00:11:45,600
treated like its own little box of

303
00:11:51,269 --> 00:11:48,720
strange phenomena so again a long way to

304
00:11:53,430 --> 00:11:51,279
go all we can take solos in is the

305
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:53,440
notion that when you're a pioneer you're

306
00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:55,279
always going to feel somewhat lonely

307
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:57,200
you're always going to feel definitely

308
00:12:01,910 --> 00:11:59,360
in the minority and i think that applies

309
00:12:03,509 --> 00:12:01,920
to most of us here

310
00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:03,519
all right let's move on to question

311
00:12:07,430 --> 00:12:04,720
number three

312
00:12:09,590 --> 00:12:07,440
despite the label of pseudoscience are

313
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:09,600
there any hypotheses regarding zero

314
00:12:15,190 --> 00:12:12,000
point energy or have you looked into it

315
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:17,910
so i would say a few things about

316
00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:19,839
zero point energy

317
00:12:24,069 --> 00:12:21,760
first of all for those of you not

318
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:24,079
familiar with this notion it is often

319
00:12:28,949 --> 00:12:26,480
talked about in ufology

320
00:12:31,110 --> 00:12:28,959
and specifically because

321
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:31,120
the idea put forward by people like hal

322
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:33,360
putoff that are very credible scientists

323
00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:35,040
of course that have been studying this

324
00:12:38,310 --> 00:12:36,560
for decades

325
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:38,320
is that zero zero-point energy could be

326
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:40,959
a virtually inexhaustible part of our

327
00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:43,680
universe that you could draw from and if

328
00:12:49,110 --> 00:12:45,760
you could it would be again

329
00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:49,120
inexhaustible basically free energy of a

330
00:12:54,629 --> 00:12:52,079
vast amount that you could use to power

331
00:12:57,190 --> 00:12:54,639
for instance starships not to mention

332
00:13:00,629 --> 00:12:57,200
every power plant on the planet now

333
00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:00,639
first off while actually tapping into

334
00:13:06,470 --> 00:13:03,360
and making use of zero point energy is

335
00:13:09,269 --> 00:13:06,480
still a somewhat controversial matter

336
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:09,279
zero point energy itself is intrinsic

337
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:11,920
and an unavoidable part of the notion of

338
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:13,600
quantum physics

339
00:13:18,310 --> 00:13:15,680
the zero point energy has been

340
00:13:20,550 --> 00:13:18,320
theoretically and experimentally studied

341
00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:20,560
and it definitely exists

342
00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:22,240
it's one of the main implications of

343
00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:23,920
quantum mechanics that arose in the

344
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:25,360
1920s

345
00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:27,519
so the zero-point energy is a very real

346
00:13:32,069 --> 00:13:29,040
physical effect

347
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:32,079
another term for it is vacuum energy

348
00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:34,480
and to give you a basic idea

349
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:37,360
we used to think of space as just that

350
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:39,839
empty space there's nothing there

351
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:41,760
what we now believe based on the

352
00:13:47,030 --> 00:13:44,079
implications of quantum mechanics is

353
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:47,040
that there is quantum foam so-called

354
00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:49,360
feeling all of space and that that is

355
00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:51,519
vibrating pulsating with energy where

356
00:13:55,189 --> 00:13:53,760
you have virtual particles coming in and

357
00:13:57,590 --> 00:13:55,199
out of existence

358
00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:57,600
extremely rapidly and this creates a

359
00:14:01,990 --> 00:13:59,839
sort of vortex of energy that can be

360
00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:02,000
tapped at least theoretically that is

361
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:03,360
the idea

362
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:05,600
that is the very notion that people like

363
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:08,320
hal put off have been trying to apply

364
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:10,079
and come up with an actual workable

365
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,120
model

366
00:14:16,069 --> 00:14:13,199
thus far as far as i know there have

367
00:14:18,949 --> 00:14:16,079
been no major breakthroughs in terms of

368
00:14:21,590 --> 00:14:18,959
pragmatic applicable technology but

369
00:14:23,590 --> 00:14:21,600
again the notion is very real from my

370
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:23,600
point of view it's really a question of

371
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:26,639
when and not if

372
00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:28,560
okay now we're ready for question number

373
00:14:34,310 --> 00:14:30,800
four which has to do with the ufo

374
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:34,320
phenomenon and the paranormal in general

375
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:37,519
this question is as follows

376
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:39,519
what are some alternative explanations

377
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:41,760
to the trickster phenomena other than

378
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:44,639
interdimensional teenagers

379
00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:47,040
so first of all that is of course one of

380
00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:49,600
the main hypotheses put forward that

381
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:52,240
when we see a supposed trickster kind of

382
00:14:57,670 --> 00:14:55,199
intelligence and by trickster we mean it

383
00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:57,680
does things apparently that confuse us

384
00:15:01,110 --> 00:14:59,360
that confound us that seem to

385
00:15:02,550 --> 00:15:01,120
deliberately throw us off track

386
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:02,560
sometimes

387
00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:04,560
that's why one of the theories is that

388
00:15:09,750 --> 00:15:07,360
this may be a kind of young immature

389
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:09,760
intelligence but of an interdimensional

390
00:15:14,710 --> 00:15:12,240
nature or a energetic nature rather than

391
00:15:17,509 --> 00:15:14,720
being a physical presence and that it

392
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:17,519
plays these pranks basically and that we

393
00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:19,680
experience this as what we call the

394
00:15:24,629 --> 00:15:21,920
trickster phenomena that is one

395
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:24,639
definition one explanation for this

396
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:28,240
behavior that we observe this activity

397
00:15:32,069 --> 00:15:30,079
another one that i'm aware of which is

398
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:32,079
very interesting and it's thrown around

399
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:35,040
more in parapsychological circles

400
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:37,680
is the idea that our collective

401
00:15:42,150 --> 00:15:40,320
unconscious is actually manifesting this

402
00:15:45,030 --> 00:15:42,160
trickster phenomena

403
00:15:47,670 --> 00:15:45,040
that as many of you may well know

404
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:47,680
there are aspects of truth to do with

405
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:50,000
who we are that our subconscious

406
00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:52,320
contains and sometimes you get what is

407
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:53,120
called

408
00:15:59,509 --> 00:15:56,880
shadow show up in strange ways in our

409
00:16:02,870 --> 00:15:59,519
experience because there is actually

410
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:02,880
a mismatch a incongruence between our

411
00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:05,040
conscious and our subconscious now the

412
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:07,600
idea is in the same way the entire

413
00:16:13,269 --> 00:16:11,120
collective human unconscious may also

414
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:13,279
have a kind of subconscious and that

415
00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:15,600
when we are becoming too

416
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:19,360
arrogant too committed to concretized in

417
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:22,079
terms of our perspective on reality that

418
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:23,120
something

419
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:25,360
deep within our collective unconscious

420
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:28,079
that knows this is off track

421
00:16:33,189 --> 00:16:30,800
raises up and deliberately throws

422
00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:33,199
wrenches into our experience basically

423
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:35,519
our experience of reality in a way to

424
00:16:40,470 --> 00:16:38,480
try and indicate to us that we are off

425
00:16:42,550 --> 00:16:40,480
track that we are too committed to one

426
00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:42,560
particular view and are therefore

427
00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:45,920
missing larger aspects of the totality

428
00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:48,720
that is another very interesting notion

429
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:50,320
when it comes to what is behind this

430
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:52,320
trickster phenomena that has been

431
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:54,560
encountered and observed time and time

432
00:16:57,749 --> 00:16:55,680
again

433
00:16:59,590 --> 00:16:57,759
there is also a third hypothesis that

434
00:17:01,110 --> 00:16:59,600
i'm aware of that's somewhat related to

435
00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:01,120
that second one

436
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:02,800
at least it's similar

437
00:17:06,949 --> 00:17:04,640
this notion is that

438
00:17:09,350 --> 00:17:06,959
consciousness itself or the life force

439
00:17:10,870 --> 00:17:09,360
if you will behind the cosmos

440
00:17:13,110 --> 00:17:10,880
contains within it this kind of

441
00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:13,120
trickster phenomena that again serves

442
00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:16,400
that same purpose it arises when it is

443
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:19,360
trying to redirect us when we've come

444
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:21,760
off course somehow we experience it as

445
00:17:26,710 --> 00:17:23,600
this kind of trickster phenomena that

446
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:26,720
seems confounding confusing seems like

447
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:29,039
it's frustrating us but its ultimate

448
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:31,440
purpose is benevolent that it's there to

449
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:33,919
try and put us back on course or on a

450
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:37,280
course closer to the truth so of those

451
00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:39,360
different hypotheses we just discussed

452
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:41,840
in terms of explaining potentially

453
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:44,640
the trickster phenomena the first one is

454
00:17:49,590 --> 00:17:46,960
a kind of just troublesome intelligence

455
00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:49,600
that is only there to try and frustrate

456
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:52,400
us that it gets its kicks effectively by

457
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:54,480
frustrating us the other notions we

458
00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:57,039
discussed are actually while confusing

459
00:18:02,789 --> 00:17:59,520
and confounding ultimately there to try

460
00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:02,799
and correct or rectify an overcorrection

461
00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:05,520
in our current trajectory

462
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:08,240
okay time for another question

463
00:18:13,750 --> 00:18:11,919
this next question is worded as follows

464
00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:13,760
it appears that certain people are

465
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:16,240
obviously predisposed to seeing and

466
00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:18,720
recording phenomena

467
00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:21,520
notably the bledsoes a person i follow

468
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:24,400
on twitter nikki noel and dorothy izat

469
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:25,440
of course

470
00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:27,600
i have been a lay science space and

471
00:18:31,669 --> 00:18:29,440
astronomy geek from when i was very

472
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:31,679
young i am 61

473
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:34,080
and i have been gazing at stars clouds

474
00:18:39,669 --> 00:18:36,640
and aircraft all of my life and i have

475
00:18:41,750 --> 00:18:39,679
never seen uap phenomena experience

476
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:41,760
psychic events or anything i could not

477
00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:43,440
easily explain

478
00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:45,440
why is it that these people cannot only

479
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:48,240
see these phenomena but also record them

480
00:18:53,510 --> 00:18:50,799
i feel excluded are these people just

481
00:18:55,350 --> 00:18:53,520
the alma deutschers and lebron james of

482
00:18:57,750 --> 00:18:55,360
the psychic realm

483
00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:57,760
another fascinating question again i

484
00:19:01,430 --> 00:18:59,760
could go in many different directions

485
00:19:02,950 --> 00:19:01,440
for the sake of time let me just go in a

486
00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:02,960
couple directions

487
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:06,080
number one this listener asked about

488
00:19:10,549 --> 00:19:07,919
importantly not just the fact that some

489
00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:10,559
people can see these objects

490
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:12,240
and entities but also that they

491
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:14,400
sometimes can record them

492
00:19:17,909 --> 00:19:15,919
of course we talked about that in the

493
00:19:18,870 --> 00:19:17,919
door at the izat episodes there are two

494
00:19:20,789 --> 00:19:18,880
of them

495
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:20,799
it was very interesting not only could

496
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:23,039
dorothy record these objects she was

497
00:19:27,029 --> 00:19:24,799
seeing and sometimes the entities as

498
00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:27,039
well but if she switched cameras with

499
00:19:31,669 --> 00:19:29,520
someone else that was not seeing these

500
00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:31,679
objects or entities with their naked eye

501
00:19:35,669 --> 00:19:33,840
then they could not capture the images

502
00:19:38,470 --> 00:19:35,679
with the same camera that just worked

503
00:19:40,230 --> 00:19:38,480
for dorothy and likewise if dorothy

504
00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:40,240
takes a camera that was not working for

505
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:42,240
someone who could not see them and use

506
00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:44,720
that camera now that camera works when

507
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:46,480
dorothy is the one holding the camera

508
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:48,320
and taking the footage

509
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:50,080
so that clearly suggests some sort of

510
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:53,280
quantum entanglement between the camera

511
00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:55,200
and dorothy's consciousness and of

512
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:57,039
course not just dorothy but other people

513
00:20:02,630 --> 00:19:59,520
that are also able to record these

514
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:02,640
phenomena again both objects as well as

515
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:04,720
supposed entities

516
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:06,640
very fascinating and this definitely

517
00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:08,880
seems to be demonstrably true this is

518
00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:11,600
something we have noted in the

519
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:13,120
literature

520
00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:15,360
now in regards to the other part of the

521
00:20:19,029 --> 00:20:16,960
question in terms of

522
00:20:21,110 --> 00:20:19,039
why is it that some people seem to have

523
00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:21,120
these capacities these abilities to

524
00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:23,440
observe these phenomena and then

525
00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:26,640
subsequently often record them as well

526
00:20:31,350 --> 00:20:28,720
that's a very complex question one that

527
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:31,360
i think we're knee deep in the weeds of

528
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:33,360
in terms of trying to figure out the

529
00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:34,960
answer to that question

530
00:20:38,789 --> 00:20:37,360
it may be multifaceted in terms of the

531
00:20:41,029 --> 00:20:38,799
factors that

532
00:20:43,669 --> 00:20:41,039
apply to why that's the case sometimes

533
00:20:46,070 --> 00:20:43,679
for one person and not for someone else

534
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:46,080
but from my point of view definitely a

535
00:20:51,029 --> 00:20:48,799
huge aspect comes down to what these

536
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:51,039
others choose what these non-human

537
00:20:55,029 --> 00:20:53,280
intelligences that are manifesting these

538
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:55,039
phenomena choose

539
00:20:59,430 --> 00:20:57,120
it seems to be the case that these

540
00:21:01,909 --> 00:20:59,440
others choose some people often from a

541
00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:01,919
fairly young age sometimes as children

542
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:04,400
sometimes as adolescents but usually by

543
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:06,240
that time according to most of the

544
00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:07,360
literature

545
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:10,480
these people are selected to be able to

546
00:21:15,909 --> 00:21:13,440
see these things and play a role in some

547
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:15,919
larger you could argue intelligence

548
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:18,000
scheme in other words these others have

549
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:20,400
a vast scheme in mind and that

550
00:21:24,070 --> 00:21:22,799
individuals play small roles within that

551
00:21:25,909 --> 00:21:24,080
vast scheme

552
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:25,919
in fact this is why i don't think any of

553
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:28,320
us who do experience phenomena should

554
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:30,640
get too big ahead about it because we

555
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:33,360
are still small pieces of a much bigger

556
00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:36,240
puzzle it's these others who understand

557
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:38,960
the totality and you would assume have

558
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:41,280
some sort of larger scheme in mind some

559
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:43,520
ultimate end game

560
00:21:47,350 --> 00:21:45,360
however that said

561
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:47,360
when you take the question about people

562
00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:49,440
experiencing phenomena that it seems

563
00:21:54,070 --> 00:21:52,080
anomalous or paranormal you might say

564
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,080
when we think about not just the ufo

565
00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:56,400
phenomenon but various aspects of the

566
00:22:01,270 --> 00:21:58,720
psy spectrum as well

567
00:22:04,789 --> 00:22:01,280
then there is mounting evidence that

568
00:22:07,110 --> 00:22:04,799
these people contain certain biomarkers

569
00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:07,120
that can actually be tracked in our

570
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:08,159
brains

571
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:10,080
that suggest there is some sort of

572
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:12,080
genetic component that allows some

573
00:22:17,029 --> 00:22:14,960
people to pick up a broader spectrum of

574
00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:17,039
reality than others

575
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:19,280
right now for instance gary nolan and

576
00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:21,360
jacques valet are doing some work on

577
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:23,360
this very matter they are putting

578
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:25,120
forward a paper trying to get it peer

579
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:27,440
reviewed by others and hopefully we'll

580
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:29,440
soon learn more about this it's a very

581
00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:30,640
fascinating

582
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:32,720
aspect of the phenomena a very

583
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:35,039
intriguing direction they're going in

584
00:22:39,190 --> 00:22:37,280
and i for one very much look forward to

585
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:39,200
the results that hopefully are coming

586
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:42,000
soon one final piece i'll add to that

587
00:22:47,590 --> 00:22:44,640
puzzle that is slowly emerging there is

588
00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:47,600
also some suggestions that perhaps all

589
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:50,320
of us have this dormant capacity but

590
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:52,720
that these others have the ability to

591
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:54,720
flip the switch so to speak to turn

592
00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:56,080
something on

593
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:58,240
inside our minds that allows us to then

594
00:23:02,549 --> 00:23:00,559
pick up larger aspects of reality

595
00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:02,559
perhaps it's about them doing something

596
00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:05,039
that allows us to drop certain filters

597
00:23:08,950 --> 00:23:07,440
so it's about diminishing overactive

598
00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:08,960
filter or perhaps they're actually

599
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:11,440
turning something on either way it may

600
00:23:15,909 --> 00:23:13,679
be something that is innate to all human

601
00:23:18,549 --> 00:23:15,919
beings and these others have the

602
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:18,559
capacity to turn something on perhaps

603
00:23:23,909 --> 00:23:21,440
ultimately in each and every one of us

604
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:23,919
okay time for another question this

605
00:23:27,669 --> 00:23:25,520
question has to do with the ufo

606
00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:27,679
phenomenon and specifically the

607
00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:30,320
different explanatory hypotheses we put

608
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:33,200
forward to explain different entities

609
00:23:37,110 --> 00:23:35,280
that may be involved and how they may

610
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:37,120
relate to each other

611
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:40,320
the question is worded like this

612
00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:42,720
if there are multiple entities involved

613
00:23:48,149 --> 00:23:45,760
are they aware of each other if so might

614
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:48,159
we be dealing with a multi-party agenda

615
00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:50,880
or a gen does in other words are the

616
00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:52,720
interdimensionals working with or

617
00:24:00,310 --> 00:23:55,520
against the ets and or the beings of

618
00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:00,320
light or might some ets and ids and lbs

619
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:02,640
be working on one side while another

620
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:05,360
group represents another side

621
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:07,120
another very interesting question one

622
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:08,960
i'm sure most of us have given some

623
00:24:12,149 --> 00:24:10,400
thought to

624
00:24:14,789 --> 00:24:12,159
the first point i'd like to make just in

625
00:24:16,310 --> 00:24:14,799
terms of the different hypotheses

626
00:24:17,830 --> 00:24:16,320
and i've discussed this in recent

627
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:17,840
episodes but i want to make the point

628
00:24:21,669 --> 00:24:19,360
again now

629
00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:21,679
i think any strong delineation between

630
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:23,919
these various kinds of entities whether

631
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:26,480
extraterrestrial or interdimensional or

632
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:28,960
extra-dimensional will undoubtedly lead

633
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:31,200
to problems when forming an argument

634
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:33,120
ultimately because i think these

635
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:36,080
delineations are largely illusory

636
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:38,480
they are useful at this stage in our

637
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,559
evolution because they help us make

638
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:42,880
distinctions according to how we

639
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:45,360
presently understand reality

640
00:24:50,950 --> 00:24:47,760
but it is almost a certainty that that

641
00:24:53,590 --> 00:24:50,960
view of reality is largely misguided

642
00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:53,600
these terms can be useful but they only

643
00:24:57,350 --> 00:24:55,120
take us so far

644
00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:57,360
as i've said before in the future i

645
00:25:02,230 --> 00:24:59,279
think we'll find these different terms

646
00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:02,240
and the hypotheses that arise from them

647
00:25:05,909 --> 00:25:04,000
will collapse into something more

648
00:25:07,909 --> 00:25:05,919
all-encompassing

649
00:25:11,029 --> 00:25:07,919
as one example i've already discussed

650
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:11,039
how any highly advanced et species is

651
00:25:15,269 --> 00:25:12,720
very likely to have conquered

652
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:15,279
consciousness to a degree we can barely

653
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:17,760
fathom at this point and thus they are

654
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:20,400
likely operating in a kind of hyperspace

655
00:25:24,149 --> 00:25:22,320
how they accomplish interstellar travel

656
00:25:27,029 --> 00:25:24,159
for instance is almost certainly via

657
00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:27,039
some kind of exotic travel though travel

658
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:28,799
probably isn't the right word there

659
00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:30,960
ultimately either

660
00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:32,240
but getting to the heart of your

661
00:25:36,310 --> 00:25:34,480
question i think ultimately there are

662
00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:36,320
likely different agendas and these

663
00:25:41,590 --> 00:25:38,640
agendas are likely organized around

664
00:25:43,430 --> 00:25:41,600
developmental consciousness levels in

665
00:25:46,149 --> 00:25:43,440
other words the entities slash

666
00:25:48,149 --> 00:25:46,159
intelligences slash species operating at

667
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:48,159
a high level of consciousness are very

668
00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:50,559
likely to share a common goal because

669
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:53,120
the very way we see reality including

670
00:25:57,909 --> 00:25:56,080
ourselves and others and everything else

671
00:26:00,470 --> 00:25:57,919
changes as we progress through the

672
00:26:03,669 --> 00:26:00,480
various levels of consciousness in other

673
00:26:06,149 --> 00:26:03,679
words what is self-evident truth really

674
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:06,159
changes as one progresses along the

675
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:08,640
spectrum of consciousness rather than

676
00:26:12,789 --> 00:26:10,400
delineating according to

677
00:26:14,549 --> 00:26:12,799
interdimensionals or extra dimensionals

678
00:26:16,789 --> 00:26:14,559
or ultraterrestrials or

679
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:16,799
extraterrestrials i would rather

680
00:26:20,789 --> 00:26:19,039
delineate according to

681
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:20,799
level of consciousness along this

682
00:26:24,789 --> 00:26:22,559
spectrum of consciousness that i've

683
00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:24,799
discussed before and by the way for

684
00:26:28,549 --> 00:26:26,480
those of you paying close attention

685
00:26:30,549 --> 00:26:28,559
you'll probably notice the commonality

686
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:30,559
between the way i answered this question

687
00:26:35,190 --> 00:26:33,200
again according to developmental lenses

688
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:35,200
that being central to the question of

689
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:37,520
agendas and how i answered the question

690
00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:39,360
about how different religions will

691
00:26:44,710 --> 00:26:41,840
respond to the notion of non-human

692
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:44,720
intelligences in our midst there also

693
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:47,120
it's less about the religion and more

694
00:26:51,269 --> 00:26:49,520
about the developmental lenses within

695
00:26:53,029 --> 00:26:51,279
those religions

696
00:26:54,310 --> 00:26:53,039
all right let's move on to another

697
00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:54,320
question

698
00:26:59,750 --> 00:26:56,960
in a recent calling all beings podcast

699
00:27:02,070 --> 00:26:59,760
you briefly mentioned a mass trance-like

700
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:02,080
effect when trying to make sense of the

701
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:04,400
ambivalence of so many people who are

702
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:06,880
now certainly aware of the reality of

703
00:27:11,669 --> 00:27:09,760
ufos slash uap

704
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:11,679
i know that i am now coming at this with

705
00:27:17,029 --> 00:27:14,320
the evangelical fervor of a recent

706
00:27:18,549 --> 00:27:17,039
convert so my experience is probably not

707
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:18,559
a good measure for the rest of the

708
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:21,600
population but i am utterly dumbfounded

709
00:27:26,470 --> 00:27:24,000
by the apathy concerning this subject

710
00:27:28,149 --> 00:27:26,480
that i experience with my family friends

711
00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:28,159
and associates

712
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:30,000
maybe it's just a matter of slow

713
00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:32,000
grudging acceptance but if the meaning

714
00:27:37,269 --> 00:27:34,480
to human existence can be found in these

715
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:37,279
phenomena and i think it can then

716
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:38,880
shouldn't this be the penultimate

717
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:41,039
subject for all of us

718
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:43,200
why am i obsessed when so many people of

719
00:27:48,389 --> 00:27:45,520
much greater intelligence than me are

720
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:48,399
turning away from the issue completely

721
00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:51,760
why the utter lack of curiosity by 99 of

722
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:53,600
the world's population

723
00:27:57,909 --> 00:27:55,279
is it just a matter of continued

724
00:28:00,230 --> 00:27:57,919
dissemination of the truth by the media

725
00:28:03,190 --> 00:28:00,240
and the lingering stigma or is this

726
00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:03,200
rooted in valais control hypothesis and

727
00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:04,000
you

728
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:06,640
me and the people of ufo twitter are

729
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:09,360
somehow exempt

730
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:11,039
another great question let me tackle

731
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:14,080
this from a few different angles

732
00:28:19,029 --> 00:28:16,480
firstly i would say that whenever we are

733
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:19,039
engaged in an endeavor that is seeking

734
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:22,240
to undermine completely transform

735
00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:24,720
the current view of reality you're going

736
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:26,880
to have a lot of pushback that is going

737
00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:29,679
to be like trying to turn a very very

738
00:28:34,870 --> 00:28:32,720
large ship that has a lot of inertia

739
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:34,880
inertia that's been built up over

740
00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:37,440
decades and decades

741
00:28:41,909 --> 00:28:40,000
those with a keen eye have noticed

742
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:41,919
something they call the lure of

743
00:28:47,350 --> 00:28:44,480
completeness when it comes to our models

744
00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:47,360
of reality and remember for instance a

745
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:49,679
endeavor like physics is there to try

746
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:53,200
and explain reality to model reality

747
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:55,840
now the lure of completeness is all

748
00:29:01,590 --> 00:28:58,559
about our desire to feel like we are

749
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:01,600
very close to understanding the totality

750
00:29:05,909 --> 00:29:03,760
that we have notions of the world that

751
00:29:07,029 --> 00:29:05,919
pretty much answer all of the big

752
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:07,039
questions

753
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:09,600
it is very disconcerting to us very

754
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:12,000
uncomfortable when we don't have those

755
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:14,559
answers our civilization and i'm talking

756
00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:17,200
about modern western civilization does

757
00:29:22,549 --> 00:29:20,960
not do well with the unknown period even

758
00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:22,559
though in more shamanic cultures for

759
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:25,039
instance this is a key aspect of reality

760
00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:26,960
and it's not even feared

761
00:29:31,350 --> 00:29:29,760
but for western civilization the unknown

762
00:29:33,350 --> 00:29:31,360
is a bad word

763
00:29:35,269 --> 00:29:33,360
even in physics there's extreme

764
00:29:36,950 --> 00:29:35,279
frustration when there are elements that

765
00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:36,960
are not yet understood

766
00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:39,120
dark matter and dark energy which are

767
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:40,960
proposed to explain

768
00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:43,679
huge aspects of reality aren't really

769
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:45,760
understood but we put the notions out

770
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:47,600
there anyway to give ourselves the

771
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:50,720
illusion of understanding even when it's

772
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:52,960
really the emperor without any clothes

773
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:55,440
underlyingly so that's the first thing

774
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:57,760
whether we're talking about religion or

775
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:00,559
science or better said scientism in

776
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:02,480
terms of how science is actually

777
00:30:07,510 --> 00:30:04,559
practiced in the modern world you're

778
00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:07,520
going to run into very rich dogma in

779
00:30:11,430 --> 00:30:09,840
both of those circles and that's why in

780
00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:11,440
both of those circles there's going to

781
00:30:17,669 --> 00:30:14,320
be extreme resistance to accepting these

782
00:30:20,549 --> 00:30:17,679
notions because in both cases the

783
00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:20,559
underlying model of reality needs to

784
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:22,640
change as a result

785
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:24,880
so let's keep that in mind let us not

786
00:30:30,389 --> 00:30:28,320
underestimate what we're up against here

787
00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:30,399
but that said

788
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:32,880
yes like i also hinted at in that

789
00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:34,720
interview on the calling all beings

790
00:30:38,789 --> 00:30:36,480
podcast

791
00:30:41,269 --> 00:30:38,799
i think there may also be some sort of

792
00:30:43,669 --> 00:30:41,279
mass trance-like effect going on

793
00:30:45,909 --> 00:30:43,679
now partly we do this to ourselves

794
00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:45,919
because of what we talked about before

795
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:48,720
the allure of completeness when we are

796
00:30:53,430 --> 00:30:51,279
comfortable with our notions of reality

797
00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:53,440
when we are confident in our ability to

798
00:30:57,269 --> 00:30:55,120
explain reality

799
00:30:59,909 --> 00:30:57,279
then we don't even pay attention to

800
00:31:02,310 --> 00:30:59,919
anomalous phenomena to outliers that

801
00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:02,320
don't fit with that model

802
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:04,559
in fact even scientists have to be very

803
00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:07,440
careful to not fall into this trap where

804
00:31:11,909 --> 00:31:09,919
they just ignore data that doesn't fit a

805
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:11,919
preconceived notion

806
00:31:16,789 --> 00:31:14,320
so what i'm saying is to some degree the

807
00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:16,799
trance-like effect the mass translate

808
00:31:21,269 --> 00:31:20,000
effect is self-induced i really do think

809
00:31:24,149 --> 00:31:21,279
this happens

810
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:24,159
but in addition to that it may very well

811
00:31:30,149 --> 00:31:27,679
be the case that because disclosure in a

812
00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:30,159
mass and sudden way is actually

813
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:32,320
dangerous because of its vastly

814
00:31:37,509 --> 00:31:35,039
destabilizing revelations

815
00:31:40,230 --> 00:31:37,519
for instance entire economic structures

816
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:40,240
will be turned on their head overnight

817
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:41,200
again

818
00:31:45,190 --> 00:31:43,120
meaning making structures like

819
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:45,200
scientific materialism for some people

820
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:47,600
or religion for other people will again

821
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:49,120
be turned on its head by these

822
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:50,799
revelations

823
00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:52,480
that being the case

824
00:31:56,950 --> 00:31:53,919
for the others that are actually

825
00:31:59,509 --> 00:31:56,960
concerned with helping us ascend to this

826
00:32:02,470 --> 00:31:59,519
new reality but in a way that will be

827
00:32:05,430 --> 00:32:02,480
helpful to our society while minimizing

828
00:32:07,830 --> 00:32:05,440
the potential destabilization i think

829
00:32:09,909 --> 00:32:07,840
that a mass trans-like effect may be

830
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:09,919
being induced by them

831
00:32:15,669 --> 00:32:12,640
in order to control this process to

832
00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:15,679
manage disclosure so that they can help

833
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:19,200
us grow into and grow up to this new

834
00:32:23,830 --> 00:32:21,039
understanding of reality

835
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:23,840
okay time for another question

836
00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:26,000
what are your thoughts on tom delong's

837
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:28,640
belief that ets have been manipulating

838
00:32:33,430 --> 00:32:31,200
humans to have us fight each other over

839
00:32:35,350 --> 00:32:33,440
religious differences

840
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:35,360
in my humble opinion this would be an

841
00:32:41,029 --> 00:32:37,760
odd way for an advanced race to expand

842
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:41,039
resources like nobel laureates watching

843
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:43,120
dogfights

844
00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:45,360
now this particular question is one i'm

845
00:32:49,350 --> 00:32:47,519
happy to address because i've given a

846
00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:49,360
lot of thought to this and because of

847
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:51,600
course as i've said many times before

848
00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:53,679
religious studies is my background one

849
00:32:57,669 --> 00:32:56,159
of them so i have much to say about this

850
00:32:59,909 --> 00:32:57,679
particular matter

851
00:33:03,750 --> 00:32:59,919
human beings have historically shown a

852
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:03,760
remarkably dogged ability and tendency

853
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:06,480
to divide based on notions slash

854
00:33:11,590 --> 00:33:08,960
concepts about reality especially

855
00:33:14,789 --> 00:33:11,600
metaphysical ones since the beginning of

856
00:33:18,549 --> 00:33:14,799
time in other words we do this all on

857
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:18,559
our own already so i'm skeptical of the

858
00:33:23,909 --> 00:33:21,360
notion that these others or some of them

859
00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:23,919
are directly controlling us with these

860
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:27,760
direct implantation of religious ideas

861
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:30,080
now if you want to discuss more indirect

862
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:32,880
causes of divisions sure then various

863
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:34,559
experiences with the phenomenon

864
00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:36,320
throughout history led to

865
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:38,880
interpretations that subsequently led to

866
00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:41,519
disagreements and divisions but again

867
00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:43,600
that's only an indirect level of

868
00:33:48,310 --> 00:33:46,240
influence and to be clear i don't think

869
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,320
it's this more indirect kind of

870
00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:50,640
influence that tom delong is referring

871
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:51,440
to

872
00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:56,080
he said regarding these matters

873
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:58,320
tom de long has said quote

874
00:34:02,389 --> 00:34:00,240
why did they land and have this guy

875
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:02,399
create a religion and then the same

876
00:34:05,909 --> 00:34:04,080
interesting ones landed on this

877
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:05,919
continent and had this guy create a

878
00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:08,399
religion that said different

879
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:09,919
unquote

880
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:13,200
i mean that quote i think says it all

881
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:15,280
thomas speaking as if

882
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:17,760
the creation of religions is almost as

883
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:19,280
simple as

884
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:22,399
non-human intelligences landing speaking

885
00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:25,200
to a human being giving them some ideas

886
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:27,919
and these ideas and this initial

887
00:34:32,790 --> 00:34:30,480
incident becomes the sum total of the

888
00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:32,800
new religion to a large degree

889
00:34:35,909 --> 00:34:34,240
and that what they've done is they've

890
00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:35,919
done that with one person and then they

891
00:34:39,750 --> 00:34:37,919
went to a different continent gave a

892
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:39,760
different bunch of ideas to a different

893
00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:42,079
individual who then very literally took

894
00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:44,560
those ideas and formed a religion and

895
00:34:48,550 --> 00:34:45,919
now you have these two different

896
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:48,560
religions in conflict because of a very

897
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:51,280
direct implanting of deliberately

898
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:53,200
contradictory ideas

899
00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:55,280
by these others to two completely

900
00:34:59,430 --> 00:34:57,680
different human populations in other

901
00:35:02,390 --> 00:34:59,440
words with the

902
00:35:05,109 --> 00:35:02,400
specific intention to spawn two

903
00:35:07,190 --> 00:35:05,119
new but contradictory religions to

904
00:35:09,670 --> 00:35:07,200
inspire ongoing

905
00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:09,680
centuries-long conflict between two

906
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:11,760
different human groups

907
00:35:16,870 --> 00:35:14,400
now just to be clear my

908
00:35:19,510 --> 00:35:16,880
qualm with what tom is saying is not in

909
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:19,520
regards to the fact that the phenomenon

910
00:35:23,670 --> 00:35:21,040
may have inspired our different

911
00:35:25,030 --> 00:35:23,680
religions i think it's quite likely they

912
00:35:27,430 --> 00:35:25,040
have

913
00:35:29,910 --> 00:35:27,440
what i'm taking issue with is tom's

914
00:35:32,710 --> 00:35:29,920
simplistic notion about how religions

915
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:32,720
are formed to begin with and therefore

916
00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:34,240
with how these others could have

917
00:35:39,349 --> 00:35:37,520
directly controlled our ongoing conflict

918
00:35:42,310 --> 00:35:39,359
as a result

919
00:35:45,430 --> 00:35:42,320
realistically historically what happens

920
00:35:48,069 --> 00:35:45,440
is yes an individual often is the

921
00:35:50,150 --> 00:35:48,079
beginning impetus for a new religion

922
00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:50,160
but that religion goes through a long

923
00:35:55,430 --> 00:35:52,960
complex and evolving state of affairs

924
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:55,440
before it becomes the kind of religion

925
00:36:01,349 --> 00:35:58,720
that we might practice today frankly it

926
00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:01,359
is a historical in other words not

927
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:03,599
accurate from a historical point of view

928
00:36:09,030 --> 00:36:06,480
to suggest religions are started in

929
00:36:11,750 --> 00:36:09,040
these very simplistic ways

930
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:11,760
what religions become is

931
00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:15,040
the sum total of a very complex and long

932
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:17,839
process that happens over centuries

933
00:36:21,589 --> 00:36:19,760
and for instance for a religion like

934
00:36:23,750 --> 00:36:21,599
christianity

935
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:23,760
various councils that were held long

936
00:36:27,589 --> 00:36:25,920
after the time of jesus for instance who

937
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:27,599
was the impetus for this particular

938
00:36:31,030 --> 00:36:28,800
religion

939
00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:31,040
that ultimately determined things like

940
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:33,040
canon in other words what books would be

941
00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:35,040
included in the bible and which books

942
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:37,200
would be considered heretical this was

943
00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:39,760
decided hundreds of years after the time

944
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:43,119
of christ and yet these councils in many

945
00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:45,839
ways determined the future course for

946
00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:48,240
that entire religion and then from there

947
00:36:53,349 --> 00:36:50,160
you had multiple divisions on top of

948
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:53,359
that based on future councils future

949
00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:56,000
divisions future cultural disagreements

950
00:37:00,710 --> 00:36:58,640
and whatnot so again it becomes clear

951
00:37:02,950 --> 00:37:00,720
very quickly for anyone who has a

952
00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:02,960
historical understanding of how these

953
00:37:06,870 --> 00:37:04,240
things progress

954
00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:06,880
that tom's notion of how these others

955
00:37:12,069 --> 00:37:09,680
may have sowed division with this very

956
00:37:15,270 --> 00:37:12,079
simplistic landing and talking to one

957
00:37:18,470 --> 00:37:15,280
individual again is not accurate is not

958
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:18,480
realistic is not historical one last

959
00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:20,160
point i would like to make pertaining to

960
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:23,200
this particular question is regarding

961
00:37:27,190 --> 00:37:25,680
the fact that most of the division that

962
00:37:30,069 --> 00:37:27,200
we think about when we think about

963
00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:30,079
religious strife religious conflict that

964
00:37:36,069 --> 00:37:33,200
has occurred over the last 2000 years

965
00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:36,079
has been between groups like islam and

966
00:37:42,150 --> 00:37:38,960
christianity and both of these groups

967
00:37:44,390 --> 00:37:42,160
come from the very same seed so it's not

968
00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:44,400
even historically accurate to say that

969
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:46,240
one major religion that was one of the

970
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:48,400
actors in the division we've seen

971
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:50,400
happened on this continent when aliens

972
00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:52,320
landed and talked to somebody and the

973
00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:53,760
other religion was on this other

974
00:37:57,430 --> 00:37:55,440
continent when somebody else was talked

975
00:37:59,430 --> 00:37:57,440
to and given different ideas

976
00:38:01,990 --> 00:37:59,440
that doesn't apply when we think about

977
00:38:04,230 --> 00:38:02,000
for instance islam and christianity

978
00:38:05,910 --> 00:38:04,240
these are both abrahamic religions in

979
00:38:08,950 --> 00:38:05,920
other words they both trace their

980
00:38:11,109 --> 00:38:08,960
history back to the figure of abraham

981
00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:11,119
so what tom's saying about two different

982
00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:14,000
figures being the historical impetus for

983
00:38:19,030 --> 00:38:16,079
these religions isn't even accurate when

984
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:19,040
we think about the actual strife that

985
00:38:23,349 --> 00:38:21,680
has existed in this world over the last

986
00:38:25,030 --> 00:38:23,359
2000 years

987
00:38:27,270 --> 00:38:25,040
these religions of course are not the

988
00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:27,280
only ones that have been in conflict

989
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:29,680
over the last couple millennia but that

990
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:32,400
is a major part of the strife and it

991
00:38:36,790 --> 00:38:34,480
doesn't line up at all with what tom is

992
00:38:39,430 --> 00:38:36,800
suggesting in terms of what actually

993
00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:39,440
happened and what ultimately spawned the

994
00:38:43,109 --> 00:38:41,280
future divisions that have been a major

995
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:43,119
part of the conflict we've all

996
00:38:47,910 --> 00:38:46,079
experienced endured and seen over the

997
00:38:50,390 --> 00:38:47,920
last 2000 years

998
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:50,400
and on that note we've come to the close

999
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:52,160
of another edition of the point of

1000
00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:53,839
convergence podcast

1001
00:38:58,069 --> 00:38:55,359
i want to thank each of you who

1002
00:38:59,589 --> 00:38:58,079
submitted a question for today's podcast

1003
00:39:01,910 --> 00:38:59,599
i wish i could have gotten to all of

1004
00:39:04,230 --> 00:39:01,920
them but that would have taken hours

1005
00:39:05,829 --> 00:39:04,240
in the end i chose questions not just

1006
00:39:07,829 --> 00:39:05,839
that were good because there were plenty

1007
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:07,839
that were very good but i chose

1008
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:09,760
questions for which i thought i had

1009
00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:12,400
something important interesting and

1010
00:39:16,390 --> 00:39:14,480
somewhat pertinent to say

1011
00:39:18,150 --> 00:39:16,400
i hope you found the same

1012
00:39:20,470 --> 00:39:18,160
i definitely look forward to hosting

1013
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:20,480
more of these the inquiring mind

1014
00:39:25,349 --> 00:39:22,800
question and answer format podcast in

1015
00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:25,359
the not too distant future

1016
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:27,520
but for now friends from deep within the